I think I just tore up my second 200-R4 transmission running back and forth to the NSRA street rod show in York, Pennsylvania. I had a Turbo 400 in my ‘33 Ford and wanted to swap it for a 4 speed automatic. This is purely a street car and I don’t beat on it (much) or race it. I opted for a 200-4R as it was similar in size to the TH400.
It was a pretty simple swap. Problem is I’m running a Fast EFI system on my 350 Chevy motor and no one makes the throttle geometry adapter so the detent cable pulls correctly. So I bought a different kit and made my own. I thought I got it right and it seemed to work fine but on the way home the trans started makes noises and began slipping on steeper climbs so I guess I took out the clutches, again. I’m not about to pull the FI and go back to a carburetor so I need another trans.
No more TV cables which leaves me with a 4L60E. Will that bolt right up to my 350 motor? I see TCI makes a controller/cable that’s compatible with the FAST ECU module. Will I need a special flex plate and or converter? Can you tell me exactly what parts I need or can you point me to someone or a company where I can purchase the right components. –-M.S.
Jeff Smith: The TV cable problem is likely the issue with your 200-4R. I like your decision to go to the 4L60E and I think you will find that while this will cost some additional coin, this is the best way to go. Besides the cost of the transmission the only other major investment will be in a trans controller. TCI has the EZ-TCU controller but a controller that I have some experience with and that I really like is the CompuShift Sport controller available through HGM Electronics..
I’ve installed one on a friend’s car and helped him tune it and it’s been controlling the 4L60E trans in his car for over a year and he loves it. The CompuShift Sport is also affordable and instead of a hand-held box, it uses a wireless Bluetooth connection to your smart phone for all the input. If you don’t have a smart phone then this may not be the way to go, but we’ve used it and it works great. We’ve also included a list of the other transmission controllers if you’d like to shop around.
As for the transmission, GM started using the 4L60E in 1993 in trucks and other vehicles and those were one-piece rear main seal small-block Chevys so look for that application. There are tons of LS-application 4L60E transmissions out there as well. One way to tell them apart is to look for a trans with a small-block Chevy bellhousing bolt pattern and that might have an integrated bellhousing, but the trans I used for my story had a separate bellhousing even with small-block bolt pattern.
I did a two-part story in Chevy High Performance magazine that outlines improvements for the 4L60E using mostly Sonnax and TCI parts and that trans is now behind my buddy’s 460ci Rat El Camino and it works great.
Other pieces you will need include a different slip yoke to hook to your driveshaft and likely you will have to change driveshaft lengths because the 4L60E is about 2 inches longer than the 200-4R. You will not be able to use the 200-4R’s torque converter as they do no interchange – but you wouldn’t want to do that even if they did unless you cut it apart to clean it. All that junk that went into the converter makes it not worth the risk. You should also consider cleaning your trans cooler as well or at least flush it before running the new trans.
The bolt pattern for the torque converter should be the same – assuming you have a multiple pattern converter flex plate. The best thing to do is choose a converter and then match the converter to the flexplate before you bolt everything up to ensure the converter will fit properly. Your shifter will work with the 4L60E no problem.
You didn’t mention if you had a lockup converter with the 200-4R but with the 4L60E I would recommend one as you can choose exactly when you want the converter to lockup and in which gear. On the 4L60E we did for the El Camino, we decided to lock up the converter after 50 mph in fourth gear only. You could choose to do that in third gear if you like. We found that with a loose converter, the rpm drop going into fourth gear was less than the drop when we locked up the converter. Each car reacts differently and the beauty is you can easily make changes.
I think this is a great plan and you will be very happy with how well your car shifts with the 4L60E mainly because you can make changes to shift quality and harshness just by with a couple of touches on your smart phone! There are some advantages to all this technology we have now!
To all the motorheads who like Automatic Transmissions, Try this out, I’ve been doing this for 30+ years with great results:::First I use the biggest Transmission Oil Cooler that I Can fit in the space{leave about a 1″gap from radiator core/no contact}Then on the “Return Side” Cooler line I incorporate a “Remote” Spin~On Oil Filter Bracket By Transdapt Which I purchased thru SUMMIT RACING. Once a year I Change the remote filter Just like a regular Oil Filter
It picks up a lot more contaminates Then the stock “Pan” filter. Especially if you have an old, high mileage Transmission When I do this,,, I’ll Prefill the new Filter with Lucas Transmission Additive. Might sound Crazy? But for about a $50.00 investment You’ll get your monies worth and better longer life out of your Automatic Transmission. I’ve never had a complaint or a “Come-Back”
Ive been looking at the 200R4 for my 74 Vette SBC as it does not need cross member mods but i have seed articles saying the 200R4 is weak and needs up-grads to take 350HP output.
Does the 4L60E require mods to the body or cross member to fit?
Is there an instillation kit available?
Regards
S
The 200-4R is a better platform to build according to Art Carr. It’s based on the 200 metric design, which was bemoaned upon it’s inception for shifting poorly, or many times not at all when they failed. The 200 Metric design was in essence, a lightened TH350, after lawsuits, and some heavy duty R&D, GM came out with the 200-4R, a 200 metric with an integrated OD unit. It was then upgraded again in 85 with different valve bodies and internals for then Hi-Po Buick Grand National and Monte Carlo SS.
Keep in mind that the 200-4R was also used behind the highest torque passenger car engine that GM produced in the 80’s the Buick LC2 from the Grand National and GNX. I’ve seen built 200-4R’s run reliably in to the 9’s behind 3.8l Turbocharged Buick V6’s. I’ve yet to see a single built 700-R4/4L60/4L60E that can reliably handle the power to go into the 9’s. The 200-4R is also a much closer ratio gear box than the 700-R4 meaning less RPM drop between shifts.
If you’ve already got the 200-4R get it into the hands of a good rebuilder, make sure the TV cable is set right and leave the 700-R4 behind.
Muy interesante la informacion sobre la trasmisión 4l60e. Gracias por compartir su experiencia.
Saludos y felicitaciones al sr jeff smith. Por su colaboración con los entusiastas de los inversiones en los autos.
I would agree with Travis provided the 200R4 is built right.
I bought a universal case 2004R from Phoenix Transmissions to run behind an Olds 455 in my 78 Dodge 1/2 ton PU.(I can hear the snickers now).It wasn’t cheap, but it held up. Yes- the secret is getting the TV cable adjusted correctly. The 200 has a lower 1st gear than the 400, but not mas low as a 700. Next I am going to install this trans in my 74 Vette with a built 383 for street use and bracket racing.
Have a 1980 Malibu Wagon 3.8 v6 all original. A Rear end I got from a friend has 4.11 would a 200r4 help or do I need to lower that rear some. Later on I would like to put a LS engine. A street machine to show
Have a 86 monte. 200-4R
Just swapped to a 350.
Car will not shift into any gear. Aside from park or neutral. Any idea what my issue is? Have tv cable hooked to carb like it’s supposed to.
Like any other auto trans that will not shift into any gear, either the forward clutch is wiped, along with other issues, such as NO Hydraulic pressure, plugged filter, or stuck valves. If the swap did not take into account proper shift linkage geometry it is a NO GO! You say you swapped a 350 instead of the 200-4R the first thing you must do is make sure the shift linkage and detents align correctly! Start by unhooking the linkage cable and with the vehicle on stands move the lever into the trans case by hand and see if it works, it not then you have more serious issues. The real way to go from here is with a pressure gauge to the port and see what is going on. Beyond that it would be pulling the pan and valve body for repairs if the clutches are still intact.
Should have had Art Carr do your 200r4 and have them install it. Its funny how people like the 700r4 4l60 and 4l60e. How can you like a transmission that falls on its face when it hits 2nd gear 46% drop from 1-2 shift means you lost the race. The 4l60e and the like were not designed for hi performance what ever each to his own.
Hi Jeff,
Have always treasured your tech input.
Question: what needs to happen to bolt up a 200 4r to an Atlas 4200 L6.?
Using the six visually modified to look old, but would like a 200 4r trans.
Thanks…jim
Jeff,
I would like to take out a 350/350 in my 5 window Ford and replace it with a 302 Ford engine and a 200 4R transmission. My thinking the 2004R can bolt up similar to the 350 transmission with out tearing up cross members and recreating the wheel… how is my thought process on this project?
What all would I need to make this switch.
Bill Gates
I have a 16 bolts TH 200-4R GM Transmision hook up to a SBC 350 V8. I swap my 4 Berol carburetor Couse it was giving me trouble. my coupe was shifting great. but when I took it out for a run, I notice that my Transmission was not getting out of first gear, its automatic so I shifted to second and 3rd gear. and it shifts but it also stays stuck. I can’t figure. out what the problem is. Can you help me out?
I have a similar problem: my TH350, when shifted manually, doesn’t shift exactly when I shift from first to second around 5,000 rpm. It continues to accellerate about another 500-700 RPM and then slams into second. It’s a delayed shift. If I leave it in drive everything shifts fine and down shifts when appropriate. I bracket this Firebird with a 468″ Olds (Mild build). If I shift manually when NOT at WOT, it still wants to rev to 5000 before shifting to second. Needless to say I don’t do this often (or at all). after that the 2nd to 3rd shifts quickly & firmly when I shift the shifter? the car runs 7.5 sec/1/8mi & 11.5’s in the 1/4 mi. 116 MPH..